The Supernatural

The Supernatural

Postby existential_elevator » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:09 pm

Brian wrote:Perhaps you can convince jaded me to have a greater belief in the supernatural. What, prey tell, do you think mom said to me each night? Failing that, what did your mom say to you each night?


For a guess, perhaps a simple I love you?

I don't really remember whether there was something mum said every night, but this did get me thinking of an odd thing in my family. The women on my mother's line see ghosts. I used to, as well. Even when I was old enough to be feverently telling myself it was my imagination! Though these days I know it's all linked to how stressed out I am [we all have a tendency toward night terrors] and having unpleasant sleep paralysis moments. It meant that as a kid I was highly superstitious.

Does anyone else have similar experiences?
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Mother Superior » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:07 pm

I don't believe in ghosts, but like all sensible people I'm still afraid of them.

...in answer to your question no, neither I nor anyone in my family's crazy. Well, apart from my sister, of course. My poor, poor demented sister...
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:38 pm

I have a 'ghost story', which I am inclined to tell. Before I do so, my mother is convinced she woke up one night and saw the Virgin Mary at the foot of her bed when she was younger.

A Felstaffian Unexplained Tale

At twelve years old, I had a friend named Dennis. We're related in a distant-cousin kind of way, but I didn't know that then. His mother owned a caravan in Hayling Island. It was one of those large trailer-type things, and it was, I think, affixed permanently to the ground on the site. From the map, you will see to the east of this trailer park, two fields, separated by a path. Follow that path south-east-eastwards, and you will see it arrives at the north-west corner of a large church grounds. Here is where the story's unknowns lie.

At nearly midnight, on a hot summery Friday night, Dennis and I were climbing trees. (Not there any more, judging by the map). We had spent the day exploring the ghost towns and emptied piers. For Hayling Island was once a thriving tourist location with amusements, fairground rides, and arcades. Now it is all rust and consumed by creeping nature. Empty rust-brown tramlines criss-cross the island. It's a forgotten relic of the early to mid twentieth century.

We had idly foraged for good treehouse materials, but, finding none, Dennis had a suggestion.
'Let's visit the church and the graveyard', he said. Followed by an explanation of its large graveyard and weatherbeaten tombstones. I reluctantly agreed: I still today enjoy a bit of a scare, but I was wary. After all, it was nearly midnight.

We made our way towards the church, finding the pathway in sheer darkness. Only the glow from the trailer site, and the waning moon, gave us vision. It is hard to see on the map, but small electricity lines pass over the pathway. They hummed ominously. This made me scared.

It was at this point the first phenomena came into view.

Dennis stopped me and pointed. It is no longer there, but a line of gnarled old twisted trees and a muddy ditch separated the graveyard from the field we were crossing. Through this line of trees I could see a sarcophagus, laying vertically, made of white marble, raised above the ground. It was bathed in an orange glow, like from an ordinary streetlamp. Except, and this is where things began to get worrisome, Dennis said to me: 'where is the light coming from?'

Sure enough; there was no source of light. The tomb came complete with shadows--the light was from directly above, just there was no light. Only a gentle beam descending on the grave, like a spotlight with no discernible beginning.Today, that would have frighted me. As a twelve-year-old, I didn't think too much of it. A light with no source. A glow with no origin. It was unnatural, possibly supernatural.

But that is not the ghost story. As we closed in on the glowing tomb, we heard a noise. It was an organ. It was coming from inside the church. The organ music was dirge-like, funereal, and horribly off-key, yet it played a miserable tune. It was a little late to be playing church music, one of us observed. The other one replied with 'it doesn't even sound like music. It's more like Phantom of the Opera.'

Then Dennis turned to me, with a mighty devilish glint in his eye. 'I haven't told you about the phantom!'
Phantom? This was new. What phantom?
'There's supposed to be a phantom who lives in the church. He plays the organ, but when you open the door, there's no-one there!'
The music was getting more discordant now. I was a little scared, but a little intrigued also. The strange light source all but forgotten, Dennis whispered 'let's go up to the door and see'.
So we did, as quietly as tiptoeing mice on soft sand. We approached the path on the north-west side. If you see the map, the pathway leads nearly perpendicular to the main (west-facing) entrance, where another path leads out from the door, and intersects it. It was down this path we crept. The organ was being blasted now, into a furious crescendo of off-kilter notes. We edged closer to the door. My heart was thumping. What if we saw the phantom? Creeping, creeping softly, we reached the intersection, some ten feet in front of the mighty oak doors with heavy blackened iron deadbolts. As soon as our feet aligned with the door, the music stopped. Dead. Mid-tune. Mid-chord. Mid-beat. Silence.

There was little else to do but look at each other, and express our terror. 'Jesus!' we screamed in harmony, and sprinted back, out of the graveyard, over the ditch, onto the field pathway, under the pylons, through the field and back to the caravan site. We burst into the trailer, where Dennis' mum was watching Father Ted. We told her the whole story, which she replied with 'you boys' and 'don't be silly.' No amount of convincing would coerce her: we'd encountered a f'kin phantom!

The Next Morning.

Ten o'clock, we headed back down. The sarcophagus was there as ever; no light upon it. The vicar was outside, tending the grass that lined the pathways. We caught his attention, and asked him who was here last night.
'Last night?' He said (I remember clearly, even his expression as he stared upwards and drummed his chin with three fingers). 'Why, there was choir practice last night.'
'What time?'
'Oh, they finished up around nine-thirty. No, ten.'
'Was anyone inside near midnight?' (Dennis asked)
'Good heavens, no. I locked up once they'd finished. No later than ten.'
'Does anyone else have keys to this place?' (I asked. With some urgency. Even at 12 years old, we needed a logical explanation)
'No. Aside from my wife. Well, there was Frank the gardener. He was the only person to have the other set of keys but he died years ago.'
We were at a loss here, as no explanation was forthcoming. I remember just repeating 'Francis the gardener?'
'Oh, yes. Well, he wasn't just the gardener. He was also the organist.'

With that, we walked away. We never did tell him we heard the organ being played, or even ask him about the phantom. I'm not sure why.

Nor did I tell Dennis I noticed that the sarcophagus, with the unnatural glow, had a faded engraving, saying Francis D. Elliott.

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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Hodge » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:38 am

Well, isn't it a bit tough to be the next post after a Felstaffian mini-novella?

I have a problem with the word "supernatural" because it implies that something that exists is beyond nature. It seems that if something exists as a part of the world, even if it is not explained or consistently observable, then it is by definition a part of nature.

That having been said, I have always thought it a bit arrogant for humans to assume that we are the most complicated, advanced, skilled beings that are possible. To ignore the possibility of things, such as ESP, telekinesis, extraterrestrial life, that are beyond our own set of capabilities or experiences, is short sighted. I'm not claiming that I do necessarily believe that those exist, but only that they must be considered to be possible.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Henrietta » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:25 am

Methinks Master Felstaff is
a) a very good storyteller
b) a cheeky fibber
c) too well acquainted with the wacky baccy.
Delete as appropriate.

I have no guesses as to what Brian's mother told him every night ('Watch out for ghosts.'?) but my own attitude towards the supernatural has always been, I think, fairly normal. Have I seen a ghost? Yes. Do I believe in them? Not all the time.
Such is the awesome thing about being human. The ability to exist happily with our own paradoxes and double standards.

Also, sup, uoting for truth:
That having been said, I have always thought it a bit arrogant for humans to assume that we are the most complicated, advanced, skilled beings that are possible. To ignore the possibility of things, such as ESP, telekinesis, extraterrestrial life, that are beyond our own set of capabilities or experiences, is short sighted. I'm not claiming that I do necessarily believe that those exist, but only that they must be considered to be possible.
Be strong, saith my heart. I am a soldier. I have seen worse sights than this
-The Illiad
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby brian » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:15 am

When they were young, I told Kyle and Eric I didn't believe in ghosts (I don't), but that if one appeared before them it would be wise to ask what it would like them to know (which is what I hope to do under such circumstances). Also, would you rather see dead people -- say a 10- or 12-year-old decaying girl with vomit running down her gown, a la The Sixth Sense -- and know, or live, as you perhaps do now, using your very human brain to daily negotiate the mystery? Which would you prefer, and what is it about living that way that would make you prefer it?

Also, earlier, jumping from page to page here, I saw Henrietta add a post. I think that marks the first time we've been in the same place at the same time. I found the experience rather agreeable.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Hodge » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:29 am

The upside to seeing dead people pales in comparison to the downside. I might get some knowledge and a better understanding of the world around me. But considering the sheer number of people who have died over the history of humanity, being the only one who can interact with them sounds like a potential life-ruiner. "Hodge, you must tell them about my death!" [/spooky voice] What a drag. I've got stuff to get done. And my life as it is now is really not so bad. So, I'll pass.

brian wrote:I think that marks the first time we've been in the same place at the same time. I found the experience rather agreeable.

You old flirt.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:56 am

Henrietta wrote:Methinks Master Felstaff is
a) a very good storyteller
b) a cheeky fibber
c) too well acquainted with the wacky baccy.
Delete as appropriate.

I'll leave that for you to decide! Everything that happened there was true, and I've had my time with waccy backy; can't say it ever did anything for me (plus the guys at my university who did so were excellent poster-boys for why you shouldn't take drugs).

Now, I don't honestly believe there was a phantom inside that church, playing the organ. But it sounded like an accomplished musician trying to sound as maudlin and haunting as possible; there was no way he could have heard us, and this was before the days of CCTV's ubiquity. As a twelve-year old, I guess I couldn't read expressions as well as I can today, but I was pretty sure at the time, the vicar wasn't fooling us around. I didn't actually see anything, and I plan to go back there to check out the mysterious light source one day, which is the only thing that has no logical explanation. I see the line of trees has been removed, along with the ditch, so it's probably vastly different. I don't suppose the removed the sarcophagus, but it was partially under one tree. There may have been a hidden spotlight in there for all I know. It just looked so weird and ethereal. Quite otherworldly. Go visit it some time! You have the map.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Henrietta » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:05 am

Your bloody mysterious light source kept me occupied for a good few hours, trying to figure it out. I came up with hidden spotlights, lamps hidden by trees, and a fat lot of nothing else.
As for the mystery organist, my guess would be someone found a way in (with old buildings it's not always too difficult) and often went in there just to mess around. You just happened to be there when they did.

I am despairingly unromantic, I just cannot NOT try to unravel a ghost story. Yours is just too Scooby-Doo NOT to have a perfectly logical and reasonable and non-supernatural explanation. (apparently today I do not believe)
Be strong, saith my heart. I am a soldier. I have seen worse sights than this
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby existential_elevator » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:21 am

brian wrote:if one appeared before them it would be wise to ask what it would like them to know (which is what I hope to do under such circumstances).
Pretty sound advice right there. I always tried to brave myself up before trying to communicate with my "ghosts", but being in sleep paralysis puts a dampener on that. I have this instinct though, that if ghosts were real, they'd probably be a bit boring to hang around with.
Henrietta wrote:Methinks Master Felstaff is
a) a very good storyteller
b) a cheeky fibber
I vote one of these two. Only time will tell!
Felstaff wrote:mysterious light source
My guess: old man Jenkins and a film projector, most likely. He would have gotten away with it too... actually, he probably did get away with it.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby ryan » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:35 pm

Hodge wrote:Well, isn't it a bit tough to be the next post after a Felstaffian mini-novella?

I have a problem with the word "supernatural" because it implies that something that exists is beyond nature. It seems that if something exists as a part of the world, even if it is not explained or consistently observable, then it is by definition a part of nature.

That having been said, I have always thought it a bit arrogant for humans to assume that we are the most complicated, advanced, skilled beings that are possible. To ignore the possibility of things, such as ESP, telekinesis, extraterrestrial life, that are beyond our own set of capabilities or experiences, is short sighted. I'm not claiming that I do necessarily believe that those exist, but only that they must be considered to be possible.


I agree completely. Our universe is complicated beyond words, and we as humans certainly don't have it figured out. It is possible phenomena stranger than we can think of exist. However, like you said, "supernatural" would be an ill word to use to describe something occurring in nature. Just because something conflicts with our current idea of nature does not mean that it is not natural. (If that were so, quantum mechanics would be quite supernatural) Extrasensory perception is a similar misnomer- how can you perceive what you cannot sense?
Not to say that ESP and the supernatural do not (necessarily) exist, just that the language that defines them is faulty.

What irks me is when people believe things that are clearly products of their imagination/emotions rather than careful observation of facts. (newspaper horoscopes, images of the Virgin Mary on toast, etc.) The world is awesome and complicated enough as it is, and it doesn't help our appreciation or understanding of it when there are folks out there who are just making stuff up.

I guess a good analogy would be kindergartners working on algebra. Some of them would just make up some answers, and none of them would know better, so it wouldn't really matter if they were right or not. Some others might make a good faith effort to actually understand it, come up with some ideas, but still get most of the problems wrong. Humanity is still in kindergarten, and questions of a supernatural, spiritual, or religious nature are a foreign algebra to us.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Hodge » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:24 am

ryan wrote:Extrasensory perception is a similar misnomer- how can you perceive what you cannot sense?

Good point. :D

ryan wrote:What irks me is when people believe things that are clearly products of their imagination/emotions rather than careful observation of facts. (newspaper horoscopes, images of the Virgin Mary on toast, etc.) The world is awesome and complicated enough as it is, and it doesn't help our appreciation or understanding of it when there are folks out there who are just making stuff up.

It would be nice if there were a clearer distinction in the popular perception between stuff like this and things that could be potentially studied. With the current conflated understanding, it is too easy for people to either dismiss everything together as nonsense, or to flatly believe everything on a trumped-up version of faith.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:20 am

Hodge wrote:It would be nice if there were a clearer distinction in the popular perception between stuff like this and things that could be potentially studied. With the current conflated understanding, it is too easy for people to either dismiss everything together as nonsense, or to flatly believe everything on a trumped-up version of faith.

Most of that stuff can, and has been studied - if only in a psychological rather than a scientific sense :D

I actually went to a pretty interesting lecture on abnormal psychology a couple of weeks ago. I could easy write a wall of text because I find this kind of stuff pretty fascinating. Though, if you're looking for the psychologists who are trying to prove the existence of psychic abilities, you'd be looking for parapsychology. There's some pretty interesting research on either side of the fence, but I'm more inclined to side with the abnormal psychologists.

To give you a really, incredibly brief summarize of some of the stuff covered in the lecture I saw [if I wasn't up to my knees in Lacan at the moment I'd find you some citations.. seriously, some interesting stuff]
  • Belief in horoscopes tends to be down to personality type and suggestibility.
  • there are particular techniques for writing things that are basically truisms that still sound really specific, like "you haven't met your true potential", which you might be told be someone who is cold-reading you [wave your hand if you'd disagree with that statement..]
  • most people who are cold reading psychics don't actually realise that's what they're doing, they really believe their ability; but without asking questions and being highly emphatic [like in blind studies where the person they're reading is put in a different room] they completely lose any accuracy
  • most of the time, people who genuinely think they've been abducted by aliens really just suffer with sleep paralysis - most of the common symptoms of sleep paralysis are evident in the common story - strange lights, inability to move, feeling some kind of presence, inability to breathe properly..
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Hodge » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:29 am

existential_elevator wrote:[*] there are particular techniques for writing things that are basically truisms that still sound really specific, like "you haven't met your true potential"

My local paper has a special horoscope everyday for people who were born on that day. It usually includes something like, "The initials T, N, and S will play a role today." Pretty easy statistics game to play, of course. But one time I noticed that the letters were D, M, and V. Driver's licenses are always set to expire on your birthday here, so about 20% of the people reading that message needed to get their license renewed at the DMV (Dept. of Motor Vehicles, for the non-USAsians). :D
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:49 am

That's actually a really interesting point that I forgot to mention!
Most people have a pretty shaky intuitive grasp of probability. Standard example being that they would think there was a higher probability of heads coming up in a coin toss if the last five throws have come up tails, although of course the probability always remains 50:50. So when statistically unlikely evens and coincidences happen, people tend to think they're meaningful - say I walk into a bar I rarely go into and see my best friend from ten years ago. But in reality, there are 6 billion people in the world, so a really unlikely coincidence happens almost every minute to someone - well, not that you can really estimate time, but they're certainly not uncommon phenomena.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:56 am

Hey guys I have an update regarding
Felstaff wrote:A Felstaffian Unexplained Tale
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My parents have bought some chalet type within a few miles of my story above, so as soon as the deal's gone through I am SO THERE and am going to investigate. I will be taking photos and film from my camera phone. I am definitely going to take a few days off work and go there on a Friday night, at the exact time, to investigate!

I'm mainly going to see if the Light-With-No-Source is still around, and whether I can actually trace the source itself. If there's organ music playing, you can be assured I will get the fuck out of there as swiftly as possible!
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby brian » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:24 pm

Felstaff wrote:If there's organ music playing, you can be assured I will get the fuck out of there as swiftly as possible!


Oh, man. I want you to find the source of the organ music, buddy-up to that source and get its supernatural self to do your bidding. Since Karen has so far refused to stay in so-called haunted hotel rooms with me, well, certainly you can help me out on this one. I look forward to your report (but not your subsequent therapy).
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:13 am

I never got to visit the chalet-type place, so this supernatural encounter will have to be delayed until the new year (they close the chalets on the site over winter, and open them on weekends only).

I should probably check if weekends include Friday nights, as that is the night I plan to repeat the test. Friday night, between 11pm-midnight.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:02 am

I may be able to visit it next Friday...
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby brian » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:36 pm

Well?
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:52 am

Frustanglingly and infurialiatory, I haven't been able to have a single weekend free since that post--legitimately. I'm not a social animal or anything, but something crops up every weekend that prevents me from going. Perhaps it's a curse? Or a warning? Anyway, can't go this weekend as I have a wedding or two (two, actually) to attend to, and next week I have a birthday to attend, and the following week I can't stay in the chalêt because parents' friends are staying there. The following weekend I'm visiting my grandma to help with her will (she's not dead, btw, not by a long shot) so that leaves the earliest I can go to be Friday 13th August.

...WHHOOAOOOAAAAAAA

I'm so going up that night!!
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby brian » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:05 am

Excellent. Bring some appropriate movies.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:06 am

Plans have been crushed. Oh, woe. :C A family friend is staying there that weekend. I will go the next weekend, but damn, that would have been highly superstitionally symbolic to visit on Friday 13th, 15 years (to the day? I think) that I last went.
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby brian » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:30 pm

Dude, you gotta catch a poltergeist. You gotta bring home proof. (Sorry your trip got delayed to the really spookily haunted Friday the 20th. Glad you still get to go, though.)
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Re: The Supernatural

Postby Felstaff » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:37 am

I went! Crushing disappointment as the church was undergoing renovation: the 100-year-old organ was sold a few weeks ago, to France no less. :c Apparently renovation has been going on since July, and the entire church is surrounded by metal mesh fencing. There were some portacabins set up around the rear entrance (where we approached when we heard the organ music). I have some photos. I took film as well, but it was completely, utterly pitch black, so it's essentially me narrating... nothing, really. (I'll upload photos and possibly youtube the film later; but it's not particularly interesting). I should have gone earlier, but I waited until the same date/time as that night in 1995. And now, I'll never find anything revealing, or have any questions answered. Seems odd that, after 100 years, they get rid of the organ a week or two before I planned to investigate.

The experience itself was creepy as hell. I think it was a good thing to do, as I genuinely faced up to a fear of the dark, and dark places, that I have. I even went back after convincing myself I hadn't stayed long enough, and needed more data. (The tarpaulin covering the portacabins crinkled in the wind, and each time made me jump). There was a surreal, ethereal moment, where the moon revealed itself, and the only things around me that lit up were the gravestones. It was like a theatre with weak spotlights, that lit up individual frozen characters on stage. I stayed for about 40 minutes, circling the church (I had never been around the sides or front before), and considering whether to jump the fences and break in. The most unsettling part was I kept imagining hearing footsteps, at which point I'd have to explain myself, but there were no footsteps; just my mind playing tricks in the dark.

Oh, and very old trees like to creeeeeeeeeak like a 30s radio horror-show door effect. That alone is enough to freak out even the most ardently cynical human beings. The goddamn tree kept creaking. It's 2000 years old.

I think I may have a theory about the light-with-no-source. The tree-line has been cleared, and the field behind it has been subsumed into the graveyard, and the position where we saw the light (in the tree-line), there was this concrete slab buried in the grass. There was a buzzing of crickets, but after passing this spot two or three times, I noticed it was constant, unwavering chirping, with no gaps (unlike the crickets all around that at least break every 30 seconds or so). This lead me to believe there was some kind of power generator/substation underneath, and the concrete slab, rather than being a buried crypt of some kind, was housing it. Perhaps in pre-tree-line days, light was allowed to escape from the underground generator? Just a thought. I'll never know the truth.

Oh, and the buzzing of the electricity pylons? Couldn't be - it was just silent telephone wires. My mind must have confused that with the buzzing of crickets/grasshoppers/chirpychirpy insects. I really want to go back to that night and re-live it, or get in contact with again with the friend I went with.

All in all, a disappointment, mainly due to waiting 15 years, and then finding out I'd missed the boat by only a few weeks.
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